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Systemd vs Devuan

Hello Fellow Nerds,

I'd like to walk back a bit of rhetoric regarding IBM/Redhat. Your (RGB) comments were surely more informed than mine, If you work there, you probably are closer to all aspects of it than I am, having only done 1 project with Redhat (qRadar, as previously mentioned).... then ran screaming from the room.

If you're reading the same nerd news I am, you recently read that Microsoft is releasing their own version of Linux... you read that right. So IBM has Redhat, Oracle had the creatively titled "Oracle Linux", Google has Android (we can argue that later), I imagine Amazon has their own, and now the anti christ of software has one.

So what I was getting at by saying that IBM "ruined" Redhat, was really a poorly stated AND misinformed way of stating what I *sense* is going on in the evolution of opensource operating systems.

Which is: that the value proposition of opensource software/OS's is so great that it just makes sense for the industry giants to embrace (extend, extinguish) it. The value of Linux is now really established and mainstream (on the server).

But at the beginning of the Great Schism that is Systemd... so many questions... Systemd exactly smells like an IBM version of EEE (embrace/extend/extinguish).

Whether they actually invented EEE is a matter of reading Wikipedia, the source of all truth, right?(https://www.mediaite.com/news/wikipedia-co-founder-says-website-has-become-untrustworthy-nasty-complex-games-to-manipulate-articles/)

but I digress. The real question on my mind it this:

What does Systemd REALLY offer? What is the true value of Systemd?

I know that I'm starting a food fight, and I don't want to read a bunch of copypasta from the originators of systemd.  I want to know what my peers who now have had many years of using, fighting with, and evaluating systemd in the wild, really think.

I'm testing Devuan to use as a LEMP webserver, and so far, I find ZERO differences/incompatibilities, and 100% of the functionality I expect is delivered.

My main arguments against systemd are, notwithstanding the incomprehensibility and complexity, are that I have exactly the same thing (lemp webserver) with a fraction of the system resources.

What do I *actually* need systemd for???

On 2021-07-15 9:15 a.m., Richard Guy Briggs wrote:
On 21/07/14, fz wrote:
I'm not sure what you think you're getting with the listed distros that
you wouldn't get with either Debian or Devuan. In terms of nearly zero
(five-nines/99999) uptime, they are all equivalent, given that they are
configured similarly. Also, I barely see the benefits of using
opensource if you're using Redhat (IBM) or derivatives, or Oracle, two
of the worst serial offenders of vendor lock-in. IBM invented it. (side
note: I rebooted one of my laptops, the browser was a bit sluggish. It
had been up for 101 days, that one has Ubuntu20 on it. As much as I've
moved away from Ubuntu, that's a decent amount of uptime without any
issues, ie. quite reliable, imo. Also, I have several servers in the
cloud running ubuntu20 and their uptime is comparable. I only reboot for
convenience while testing.)
I used to run Ubuntu on multiple laptops and desktops.  I won't touch it
anymore since they managed to break things on two reasonably standard
desktop hardware a decade ago where Debian didn't even blink, and, I
don't trust Shuttleworth.


Oracle? look what they did to ... everything they touch. Rocky V1. You
want V1 for a production datacentre? Ubuntu? A fatter slower version of
Debian. Can't see any advantage whatsoever to Ubuntu. Redhat is IBM.
RedHat is still independent of IBM.  I'll let you know when that
changes since I actually work there.  The CentOS hot mess was an
internal job that started in 2014 long before IBM had any influence.  I
run RHEL on $work workstation, and fedora on $work laptop and am
satisfied running it also on the laptops of the other three family

They already ruined it with proprietary ways of doing everything.
They haven't touched it.  I agree IBM has a track record of ruining
many things, but so far they seem to have managed to keep their hands
off this one.

Imo, Debian is your worst case scenario. Which is not too bad. It is
arguably THE root distro, it is known for stability and has all userland
software. I'm still going to say if you're not straying much from the
LEMP stack, then Devuan is your best choice.
I'm still on Debian but am seriously considering moving to Devuan due to
systemd.  I run stable on personal servers and testing on desktop.


least amount of moving parts ... compare output of ps aux to any other

no vendor lock-in... it's Debian, same userland, with a lighter init system

stability: its Debian.

Interested to hear any counterarguments. Usually, your/my choices has to
do with what you already know ( and therefore) like, and I'm completely
guilty of this,and what will take the least amount of your effort to get
off the ground. So I'm guessing you'll go with ..... hmmm.... Rocky. :-)
There are a number of options for RHEL for community and development now,
but if none of those scenarios fits, then Rocky.

On 2021-07-14 12:25 p.m., Alan McKay wrote:
Just to circle back - not sure if any of those are alternatives to
CentOS that would be considered Enterprise Grade

What would I choose for a zero-downtime production datacenter and why?

And why is CentOS stream no longer Enterprise Grade?

I'll leave those questions floating for a bit before I provide my own answers.

For me the alternatives are :
- Oracle
- Rocky
- Alma (I think I have that right)
- Ubuntu

and I think that's it
	slainte mhath, RGB

Richard Guy Briggs               --  ~\    -- ~\            <hpv.tricolour.ca>
<www.TriColour.ca>                --  \___   o \@       @       Ride yer bike!
Ottawa, ON, CANADA                  --  Lo_>__M__\\/\%__\\/\%
Vote! -- <greenparty.ca>_____GTVS6#790__(*)__(*)________(*)(*)_________________

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