Hi; I asked this question a few days ago on the OCLUG list and got a few answers but not really to the heart of the matter. It has become a joint question from miden and myself. To summarize: Adrian Irving-Beer had explained to me clearly what is meant by file format proprietary ownership and that got me wondering how or in what manner copyright and patents apply to program code. I tried to make it clear I was NOT asking for the legal ramifications but rather "If I write my 50 lines of code, is it the literal 50 lines of source? Is it the compiled binary? If someone writes the same thing but uses another programming language are the rights the same? etc ... I suppose I am asking, what is the object of all these rights and disputes? Not, what are the various rights involved?" N.B. Miden expressed an interest in this question as well, and suggested a much better way to put the question. He said "Is it the individual lines of code (as in 'this code has never been seen before I came up with it') or is it the (unique?) arrangement of those lines (which may make possible some new behaviour or use), is it the concept that resulted in the writing of the code, or all of the above? Perhaps some programmer on the list could indicate what they try to do or avoid doing (in order to avoid legal disputes) when writing a program." James Lockie responded with an answer that got us most of the way there, I think. He said "I think you copyright the specific code and what it does. Then it is up to you to defend your copyright. I don't think anyone could write 50 lines of code that does anything worthwhile that hasn't been done before. Now 500 000 lines of code, maybe. :-) *To avoid legal disputes, don't use anyone else's code. * Pieces of code are ok, just not a whole program. You can use pieces of their code but the more you use, the easier they could sue. I know an employer I used to work for used GPL licensed code that was modified for internal use. The modified code was never used outside. Even if you write the exact same code as someone else and you never saw their code, it is perfectly legal." Miden and I would like to know in a very pragmatic way what code is protected and what isn't? And, how do you know or protect yourself and your code while in the throes of creating code for a program? -- Regards Bill